Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say?

Subject: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:55 pm

Let me start by confessing that few people know about my love of all things domestic. While I'm not ashamed of it, I've learned the hard way that sharing will, more often than not, get you nothing but scorn. That or people will talk to you like your a slightly retarded adolescent (poor thing...homemaker doncha know).

I've lost touch with people, women all, who did find out and promptly distanced themselves. Its like they think I've put the entire women's movement back a century. So much for it having given us the right to chose.

I ran up against this prejudice again today. A snotty remark about being Martha Stewart. I know I shouldn't care. This crap comes from the same women who complain that their homes are a jungle but the career/kids/social life/etc.. prevent them making an effort. And at the same time, act like said jungle is a badge of honour ie: cleaning and cooking is what my grandmother did. Oh look at what a busy, modern woman I am.

The fact that I've done the career/kids etc AND kept an organised home is apparently no longer germain as I've gone and sold out. As it were. Being a working mother now absolves you from any responsibility for domestic duties. Being a childless working woman means its de rigeur that you have a cleaning service.

Now I do realise that there are still plenty of women out there who have jobs, families, a busy life AND keep house. But perhaps, like me, they keep quiet about the latter for fear of being marginalised or not taken seriously at their jobs.

Why do I have to confine myself to dedicated Boards like Brocante and the one or two friends I still have who haven't forgotten that I respect their choices so need to respect mine.

Anyway, rant over. Thanks for listening.
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Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:41 pm

Ali, Isn't it terrible? I usually don't tell people either because of comments and the fact that they behave as though you have a condition that may be catching. Even my mother thinks my love of all things domestic is odd. She probably wonders where she went wrong with me. She is one of the women from the 60s and 70s that couldn't wait to join the work force and womens lib and all and that's great but I wish she realised that she was fighting for a woman right to choose and this is my choice. Don't let them bother you, they don't know how wonderful we really have it with our cosy homes and home cooked meals. Thank goodness for this site, huh? Happy Halloween, Holly

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:05 pm

I know exactly where you are coming from, Im 22 year's old, most of the people I went to school with have job's, and not good job's at that, they have neither a home of their own or a man of their own, they live with parent's still and switch boyfriends when they get sick of their current one's (needless to say, I have nothing to do with these girl's anymore, but I still hear about them through the grapevine, the only girl I still see from school is Victoria, she look's after her grandad, and is a lovely girl, she even admire's my shiny stock pot's when she come's round), but the other girl's from school think there is something wrong with me, their mother's do aswell, they think I was stupid to get married to the man I adore when I was 18, they think Im worthless because I dont have a paid job , but I do work, I work damn hard in this house to keep it clean, tidy, cosy and comfortable, I cook good meal's and bake tasty cake's, I look after my husband and always have his clothe's washed and ironed for him, I am happy with my life, I have a terrific husband, a beautiful home, 3 wonderful pet's and a loving family, but yet Im looked down upon! So what if I married young, I knew then and I still do that John is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with (we have been together since I was 16 and he was 27, and that make's me so mad when people comment on our age difference, if we are happy, why should it bother anyone else!), and look where I am now, I am so very happy been a housewife, I love it, and I am so proud of the work I do in our home, people come in and comment on how clean and tidy our home is and that make's me so happy, it is my choice to stay home, it is my choice to be a housewife, yes, I could get a job, but then I would'nt be happy, so I do what make's me happy, and if people scoff me, then sod them!
So pleased I have found this site to talk to like minded women, I feel better now I have got that off my chest.

Last edited by on Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

I know that feeling as well. I want nothing more than to have Melanie's life. Have a husband who happily goes to work leaving me in charge of the home. Instead I have an overbearing feminist mother who works 60 hours a week, makes more money than her lawyer husband and barks orders at him when she needs stuff done around the house. This is the woman who hates being home so everyone should be just like her. I constantly get the, "You should want to...." "If I were you I'd..." And she doesn't understand I am the most happiest at home. Just because she hates being home for more than a 3 hours at a stretch doesn't mean I have to hate it also. My father is a loser and always was when I was growing up. Couldn't keep a job to save himself. Now his marriage to his 2nd wife is on the outs because he's a million in debt (to his own doing) so he takes it out on me. He's now on my ass to get a job. "You better have that paper in hand and find that job. It'll clear out your head and make life fun. Nothing is more stressful than having no money for yourself!" I'm sorry, where's the fun and when does it kick in?

My husband is hellbent on my staying working despite my obvious unhappiness. He just tells me to see someone and to get medication to be happier because my problem is clearly clinical depression. Depression isn't my problem... I'm just not enjoying my life. He's constantly trying to get me to pick a career, get trained, never stop working because he feels it's not fair to him to be out at an office all day instead of lounging around doing menial housework. Even when we have kids he wants me right back in the work force again. "All adults have to go to work. It's part of growing up and being an adult." Well what happens when we do have kids. Who's watching them? Because around here, day care costs more than I make but I have to keep on working like the good little robot. But now that I work, I will occassionally ask him to help me do some stuff around the house and it's like pulling teeth to get him to do anything. So he wants me to work AND housekeep because just housekeeping isn't fair to him. I'm ashamed to tell him (or anyone else for that matter) what's wrong most of the time because I'm afraid of what they'll think of me for wanting to be a housewife. "This isn't 1955!" My mother tells me, "You haven't had kids yet, you haven't earned the right to just stay home." My mother continues to tell me, "You don't have any goals for your life. I'd love to see you set some goals and really go after them." I'm not a big enough person to say back, "I have goals, I'm just not allowed to go after them."

Now that I got a job, everyone is expecting me to be all jovial and back to my normal happy self and they wonder why I'm so sad... yes the job is part time but I want to hang myself when I'm here. I feel SO unproductive as all I do is file someone else's paperwork all day. I was so proud when someone walked into my living room and was like, "Wow this place looks fantastic!" That gave me a sense of accomplishment and pride. Not this crap that I do from 9am-2:30pm. But the meaningless crap supposedly gets looked higher upon??!?! I lost so many jobs when I was applying because I was a housewife for 2 years. No one thought it was real work and/or were jealous so I had to lie on my resume and in interviews to score a job. There is something wrong with that picture. No one sees the sadness in me... but me. No one else understands but maybe you guys. What I wouldn't give to be a June Cleaver or Samantha Stephens. I want to cry at times but that would bring on questions... answers to them would bring on the ridicule so I keep it all inside. I just wish I could find a legit work from home deal so I could do housework in between working and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Make everyone happy that way I suppose. But in the end, I understand what you feel and then some.

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:41 pm

I'm sorry Michelle, it must be horrible what you're feeling. Why does it have to be so hard for people to understand that some of us enjoy cooking , cleaning and raising our children. I hope it gets better for you soon. Holly

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:49 pm

Is it economically viable for you to stay home Michelle? As much as we may want it to be otherwise, two incomes have become a necessity for many families.

I'm sorry your husband has that attitude. I suppose its scary, being the sole provider. That fear can make it easy to minimalise the contribution you make being a homemaker. Or take the view that the non working partner is being lazy.

I really don't know what to suggest. It took a lot of years, and a second marriage, before I got to this point. I've worked part time on and off now, when it was needed. But I appreciate that having that choice is a luxury.

I enjoyed my career. I enjoyed being a mother and my kids both grew up fine with a working mother. Just as well as not working wasn't an option at that time. But I'm glad now to be out of the rat race and chicks flown, as it were.

I hope things improve for you chick!

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:28 pm

I'm sorry I didn't mean to take over the thread. But it did feel good to let it out!

As for the financial stuff, we've both made mistakes that we're stuck paying for. I have some old debts that need rectifying and he has a mess all his own too. So for that respect, I know I need to work past the new year to finish cleaning up the little fires and he owes like 6,000 to the government for something with a credit card and taxes I don't know what. I try to find ways to make things cheaper but he always finds some reason not to change. I mean I don't use a cell phone. It tells time and that's about it. I suggested cutting the bill in half by getting rid of mine, having me go with a prepaid but he won't go for it. Looking for a cheaper place to live, he wants his 5 minute commute in the morning. So long as I work, we can't consolidate to 1 car because we work completely different times and he sometimes needs to run out in his day. The biggest problem we have, we don't have ANY financial organization. We don't control what goes out, what comes in, who bought what and when. I keep bringing it up that we need to organize stuff and he just keeps saying, "After new years." Um alright. I just keep thinking that this job will take care of my christmas presents. I just need about 5k and that will take care of everything I owe and have a little left over. So I'll take care of that, the week after new years I'm sitting his ass down and focusing on our finances and how to make life easier and more organized. One step at time. Maybe we'll discover we have enough to take care of everything after everything is cleared up.

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:44 pm

Oh my goodness - don't we feel like a 'secret' society of some sort of cult that the rest of the world judges as deviant in some way??!!

Do you think the day will ever come when 'home-making and maintaining' and bringing up a family is a truly respected career in itself? It is certainly one that requires a full spectrum of skills and intellect that anyone would love to be able to include on their CV, and has long working hours - I have worked both full and part time and NO job I have ever had (and I have always given 150% to every job I have done and risen up the ranks) has required such multi-tasking, quick thinking and sheer hard physical work and commitement.

It is SO frustrating that I feel I have to constantly justify myself and my chosen position, even to friends - even when the results speak for themselves. I have a fantastically intelligent, articulate, loving and confident young daughter, a happy and supportive marriage, a home that is renowned for being welcoming and (pretty much) always immaculate, that friends want to come and spend time in, leave their children with me in, eat and laugh in. Ironically we are more likely to take our hats off to the woman who works all day doing a job she hates, whose babies (eventually) learn their first word from their day-care workers, whose house gets a weekly once over from someone earning minimum wage, and who need someone like me around to rely on when someone has to pick their kids up from school in an emergency, or when they have a late meeting, or they can't face their ex-husband for the weekend 'hand over', in short, when their lives are falling apart at the bursting seems. These are the so called 'Superwomen' who look down on us stay at home mums (oh, believe me they do!) - but what women do they rely on to help make THEIR life choices work? The child carers, the cleaners, the mothers/friends who can be available to help out when necessary. And who do we have around to rely on.......

I hope I don't sound bitter! I am all for CHOICE as some of you have quite rightly said. Before I had my daughter I happily worked full time, as did my husband, with no intention of stopping or having children. When we did start a family though, it was in the lucky position of being able to choose to make raising her and securing a happy family home for us my new full time role. I didn't want to have a precious child only to hand her over to someone else to experience her most precious moments (and they all are!). Or I saw no point in having a family at all. My choice, and one that should not only be respected but you would hope celebrated! I hope all my - our - hard work means one more decent human being going out into the world, to make it a better place in their own small way, and while I am not REMOTELY saying only stay-at-home mums produce decent human beings, can we please be respected EQUALLY because we put all our energies into trying to, and see it as being so important we chose to make it our role, and for supporting those other women who couldn't make the same choices, for whatever reason.

GGGGRRRRR!!

If I hear the question "Are you still not working then?" one more time..... I have never worked so hard!

Rant over... yes it IS good to get it off your chest isn't it? Of course, you know I couldn't have this conversation in 'real life' or I would be accused of 'over protesting' (cos I can't possibly REALLY enjoy my job) or being in the dark ages.

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:44 pm

At the risk of going on - but I do feel very passionately about all this stuff!!. How about the Government actually admitting to seeing where the root of a lot of our social problems lie, and providing some sort of financial incentive for people to STAY AT HOME if they want to and maintain solid family units???? Is it a coincidence that childhood obesity is reaching staggering proportions (and today new scientific research tells us this is a major factor towards developing cancer...) when we no longer have parents at home in time to prepare, cook and eat good, fresh wholesome family meals together? To teach our children about growing food, shopping and budgeting for healthy meals, cooking food? What happened to Home Economics lessons at school? We all have to eat don't we?? And all my daughter's best info emerges during meals at the dinner table....

We also have claims that an alarming number of children are leaving primary school unable to read. Have we forgotten that WE are our children's primary carers and teachers, and that learning to speak and read begins from day one at home? I spoke to my daughter constantly from birth, as if she were a little person in the house with me (saddo that I was!), on a one to one basis. I read books to and with her every day - as much for my enjoyment as hers. She was able to hold a full conversation at 18 months old, and today is credited by her literacy teacher as having a 'marvellous turn of phrase' in her written work. By contrast, I have several friends, all loving parents I hasten to add, whose children were placed in Day Care while months old, and all of whom did not speak full sentences or fluently until nearing nursery age (4 years). Is this a coincidence? Even the best day care nursery in the world cannot provide constant one-to-one attention in the same way a parent can. How can a child learn to love books and enjoy reading if they never have a bed-time story, or have never embraced a book while cuddled close - regularly, because parents are too busy or unavailable?

Remember the days when Mum's used to be at home watching out for the kids playing outside, ready to nip any troublesome behaviour in the bud? I know when we were kids any one of the mothers in the neighbourhood could tell us ALL off if we were out of line and we would respect their word. Who is around to see what goes on after school now? I hear the bad attitude some of the children coming out of my daughter's school have towards adults - and they think they can get away with it because their parents are not only not at the school gate to witness it, but probably not even at home when they get in. The big communication divide needs scarce little help when kids reach teenage years as it is - by not being around with all the time in the world to listen to their moans, fears, problems, joys, what hope is there? And another survey says we have the most stressed children in Europe - no s**t Sherlock!

I'm no Stephen Hawkins, but surely there is a pattern emerging here.... and all compelling cases for how important being a Domestic Goddess should be?!!

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:38 am

It all started when women wanted to become men. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to the working woman. Some women would better thrive in the work force while others thrive at home. I couldn't picture my mother being a stay at home wife. But she told me this afternoon, she could see me doing it which is spot on. We have opened the doors to more flexibility in what roles we choose as women but I personally think that we opened the doors and as time goes on, we (as society) are closing those doors once again as well. What started as a rebellion against oppression became the new "norm". Our roles just went in the opposite direction. Back in the 1950, 40's, 30's etc... few women worked and you went to school to find a husband so you could stay home to create a warm, loving a home. If you weren't married and doing housework by your mid-20's, society thought there was something wrong with you. With so many women were stuck in crappy marriages and a great deal being repressed, they wanted to be free so badly to make their own money and have a say in things. 60's kick in and the rebellion begins. Bra burnings, rebellions against their "repression"... Now we are brain fed that it's your new role to work and if you aren't there's something wrong with you. The thinking hasn't changed, just reversed.

But with this new change, society and finances have changed with it. Everything is SO out of hand expensive. Homes in my area are insane. We'll never survive here but I don't know which state in my area is better unfortunately. I mean it's not out of the ordinary that a young new couple can have a $2500.00 a month mortgage (£1200 for our British sisters) and the home they get is a 2 or 3 bedroom little bungalow. Cars are the price of a college education... it's almost like society (in it's ways to "make men and women equal in their roles") has made it difficult to live without the support of both incomes. Women now feel pressured to be in the work force at the risk of losing out on her baby's first word, first walk only to hear about the milestone as they write the check to the day care center.

And I agree 500% with you Domestic Goddess, you never heard children speak to adults like the do now. Curse words fly off the tongue like the words 'hello' and 'goodbye'. Our TV is filled with it, society is filled with it and it's really unfortunate. I doubt the role of a domestic goddess will ever return to the normal state of things but we can hope that the drones in the world snap out of it and realize that lives of our children and their children are suffering because of poorly thought out choices 40 years or so ago. I'm sure and in fact certain there is a counter argument and corrections to things I've stated here but this is my personal opinion and every day that goes by I can't help but wish time would reverse itself and people wake up.

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:38 am

Wow. I didn't intend to open such a big can of worms.

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:54 am

I am so sorry that you are so unhappy Michelle, I really feel for you. I worked a while ago, and I hated it, the people I worked with were awful and the job was so boring, all day, as I sat at my desk, all I could think about was getting home, to the comfort of my lovely home. I had to pack in working because I was so depressed and since then, I have stayed home and looked after the running of the house. Why cant we just do what make's us happy without people judging us, surely the people around us would be happier aswell, because we are happy. It really annoy's me that we are looked down upon for staying home and been a housewife, time was when women would be looked down upon if they went out to work, it was seen as neglectful to their familie's, it has been tradition for hundred's of years for the husband to go out to work, while the wife stayed home to clean, cook, shop and bring up the children, why have thing's changed so much. I have vowed never to go out to work again, this is my job, been a housewife, and it is a full time job, we are constantly on the go, it is not as if Im sitting around all day watching tv, Im not lazy, I am alway's doing something, but people think your lazy if you dont have a 9 to 5 job, and it is a disgrace!
I enjoy my job, and I am never going to change job's, and people can think what they like, I am happy, my husband is happy and that is all that matter's.

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:06 am

Well said Melanie.

No wonder so many people are diagnosed as being depressed (young and old) these days, because we are trying to shoe-horn ourselves into too many pigeon holes that we feel obliged to fit into, instead of simply choosing what makes us and those we love happy! It is a no brainer that a happy, secure home life - in whatever form that takes - is the basis to a happy secure society. And no one person, women or men, can do EVERYTHING - choose the role that best suits you and do it with love and pride.

I tried to go back into the workplace when my daughter started full time school, and did a work related qualification at the same time. It was partly out of curiosity, partly out of wanting to feel 'back in the real world', partly to feel financially rewarded and to contribute. While at first it was satisfying, and I always had my husbands full support and help, when it began to take over my life and my daughter began showing signs of behavioural problems for the first time in her life, and my house felt (and looked) like it was crying for me, I realised that my family and home needed me and deserved me more than the outside world. Anyone qualified could do my 'paid' job, but no-one else could take my place at home, and this was where I got my greatest sense of satisfaction ultimately. I have not once regretted my decision to go back to being a stay at home mum - it's what I do best. I guess a little part of me, sadly, also now feels fully justified in my decision, as if I needed to PROVE my worth - 'see, I tried going back to work and it didn't work'. I hear myself telling friends that with my husband working away and such long hours, it is essential I am the cornerstone at home - and the appreciative 'aahs' are the sad proof that I still obviously need a good enough reason or 'excuse'.

I agree with you too Michelle. Because women are so capable of multitasking and being brilliant at everything (??!!) we in fact made rods for our own backs and simply gave ourselves less choice by becomming vital parts of ALL the cogs that are the family running 'machine', making it nigh on impossible to reverse the trend and be able to 'opt out' without it all falling apart. A trap of a different sort. And you know what, it's not usually men who judge us for the choices we make, but other women!!! Some sisterhood?! Do you think it's a form of jealousy in some instances? Some people do like to put down other people to justify their own miserable position to themselves or others. That's the biggest shame - lets support each other in doing whatever makes us HAPPY - god knows enough of life's trials and tribulations will conspire to bring us down from time to time, without our help.

And Ali, thank you for opening this discussion, not a can of worms! Where else could we have this opportunity to stand up for what we put our life and souls into doing without derisery retorts or being called contraversial??!! This is mentally stimulating stuff, and it feels good!

LOL

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:13 am

So long as we're supporting each other and offering suggestions!

Subject: Re: Obsolete Am I? Irrelevant You Say? Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:26 am

When people ask me "are you working", I would normally reply "no, not at present" and I could see the look of disgust on their face's, but now when people ask me I will say with pride "yes, I work full time, Im a housewife and I love my job". Of course if I say this, people will probably think Im barmy, and will not class been a housewife as a job, but so what, it is the honest reply to their question, I do have a job, and it is a job that will last me the rest of my life, it is a job I cant get fired from, it is a secure job, a fulfilling job, a job I get rewarded for every time someone compliments my clean house, or the tasty cake I baked, my husband reward's me by saying I am an excellent wife, and saying how clean our home is, he buy's me little treat's for been a good wife to him and providing him with a comfortable home, I love my job, and I know there are many women out there who would love to stay home and be a housewife, but are too scared to take that step because of what society will say about them, it is all wrong the way this world is, why should we be judged, do we housewive's judge the women who go out to a 9 to 5 job, no we dont, it is their live's and their decision's, but yet we get judged for been a housewife, a home maker, a stay at home mam, call it what you will, we get labled lazy, and it is not right, I think that us women who are housewive's have the hardest yet most satisfying job on the planet, let society think what it like's.