There is no need for it.

Subject: There is no need for it. Sat May 10, 2008 10:46 am

We had an alright night last night at the camera club, I enjoyed our pie, pea and roast tattie supper (I had a cheese pastie instead of a steak pie), I was really enjoying myself, everyone was chatting and having fun, but then I got in an argument with a man who goes there every week, and who, although I found there was something about him I did'nt quite like, I still spoke to him politely and nicely, well, I must have a sixth sense or something, because last night, I found out why there was something about him which I did'nt like. He knows I am a vegetarian, and every oppurtunity he gets he taunts me about it, telling me reasons why I should eat meat, and not listening to the reasons why I wont eat meat, if I eat a bit of cheese infront of him, he says I should not be eating that because I am a vegetarian, to which I reply, only vegans do not eat anything that comes from an animal (he did that last night infront of loads of people trying to humilate me, after the pie and pea's, a cream cake was served, and I had a slice, and he said I should'nt be eating cream because it comes from a cow, and John and other people who were near by stuck up for me and said I can eat it because Im a vege, not a vegan, to which he replied that vegetarians and vegans are the same thing, and everyone totally argued against that and pointed out the differences between vegeatrians and vegans, he knows the differences, he was just having a go at me), he knows I smoke, and a number of people in the camera club smoke, but he only gets onto me about it, I obviously go outside to smoke, but he is not happy about that, he has to go on saying I am causing damage to myself and other people, but he does not say that to the other 20 people in the club who smoke, just me, but I used to put up with all this, not wanting to make a scene, but last night was just to much. I was talking about my mams pups, and I asked him if he wanted to buy one (he has a 13 yr old son who is longing for a dog) to which he said he does not believe in keeping dogs in house's, they should be allowed to run wild, and I pointed out that dogs are domesticated creatures, and are kept as pets, I told him our dogs play out all day, having fun in the garden, and then come in to sleep cosily, but he was having none of it, dogs should be kept outside forever. I asked if he likes cats, and he said, yes, strung up from the ceiling by their necks! I saw red, because animal cruelty I can not tolerate, I have campaigned against it, I have confronted a gang of lads when I saw them kicking a pigeon, there is no need for animal cruelty and I can not tolerate people who are purposely cruel to them. Well, this man was about to tell me a story about how he was cruel to a cat, and I told him not to, I did not want to hear it, but he just ignored what I was saying and told me anyway. He lived in a upstairs flat before, and in the yard he planted flowers in a pot, and when he went to tend the flowers, he saw cat poo in the pot which made him fuming (I told him that cats just go where they please, they have no idea that they are doing wrong, but he wouldnt have that, he was determined that this cat was out to get him, and wanted to annoy him), so he buried shards of glass under the surface of the soil, and the next day, he said there was blood all over his yard, little paw prints of blood, which he found immensely funny, I told him he was very cruel and I did'nt want to hear any more, but he continued, he put wire over his plants to keep the birds away, and one night, 2 cats were crying in his yard, so he opened his window to chase them away, which is fair enough, as long as you dont hurt them, but he did, one cat ran, but the other got a shock and jumped into the wire and could not get free, so he got a brick, and flung it off the cat, it hit the cats side full force, and the poor thing howled in agony, and got away, injured, as fast as it could. I was seething by this time, and was arguing with him, telling him he should be reported, and that the cat was probably some ones pet, a cat that some one loved, and he has injured that cat, to which he said, it should not of been in his yard! As if the cat knew not to go in his yard, the idiot. He continued with his stories of animal cruelty, talking very proudly as if he was a good man for doing this, and he told me he was in his yard, fiddling on with his car, when a fluffy white kitten came in and ran under his feet causing him to trip and get a little oil on him, the kitten got such a shock, it ran in his open door, up the stairs and tryed to hide in his bedroom, he went running after it, but his now ex wife got there before him and threw the kitten down the stairs, so that the kitten got out of the house and out of his way, that is awful, but a mercy compared to what he was going to do, he boldly and proudly told me, he was definately going to ring the kittens neck and kill it! Well, I was so angry then, I had to really control myself not to get up and slap him, I shouted at him telling him he is a disgrace, that we have a cat, and he is so loving like most cats, all they need is a little love and affection, he said my cat is training me, I told him he is ridiculous, John came over then and heard what was going on, and I told John, infront of this man, that I was going outside, because I said, if I dont I will end up punching him, so I went outside, and stayed there the rest of the night, I was so angry and upset I was shaking, I was fighting back tears, John came out to comfort me, and this man came out to talk to people who were outside, and I never looked at him once. He will be there next week, and every week after that, and if he trys to talk to me I will ignore him, and if he taunts me any more, I will not hold my tounge to keep the peace, I will let rip on him. I told him not to tell me the cruel things he had done, but he just kept on telling me, taking pleasure in seeing me get angry and upset, he is a sick man, and I would'nt spit on him if he was on fire. So that ruined my night, and I am considering packing the club in, but I am on the commitee (he is too) and I dont really want to leave our friend, who is the president of the camera club in the lurch, so I dont know what to do, I will go next week, and just ignore him, see how that goes.

Today, I am just going to tidy up abit, have a relaxing bath, and chill for the rest of the day.
I hope everyone has a good day, take care all.

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sat May 10, 2008 12:28 pm

Melanie,

Whew, how frustratingly horrible. Does the UK have any laws about taping someone without their knowing it? He sounds like someone I would watch my back on.
Most people that hurt animals will hurt people too and terribly. It couldn't hurt to report him to the humane society, possibly they would have a report of him already. I would be surprised that he has never been reported previously.
Another thing too, the less you react the better. He sounds like he feeds off your reactions.

Have a wonderful day. Take care Melanie

Barbara

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sat May 10, 2008 2:01 pm

I really want to report him. John said just to ignore him aswell, as the more I react, the more he goes on, but I cant help it, if someone annoys me, I just cant hold my temper in, I let rip, like this morning, this down and out man who my mam took pity on was in my mams when I phoned her this morning, this man is awful, but my mam has a big heart and took pity on him, he kept telling my mam to put him on the phone so I could talk to him, I said no, my mam told him no, but he just kept on and on, and in the end he started calling me names because I would not talk to him, and I just flipped, I wanted to go round and punch him, how dare he call me names, I just get so annoyed, so in the end my mam had to just calm him down so I would calm down, poor John did'nt know what was going on. I am a really easy going, calm person, but if someone annoys me, I see red, and I loose my temper, just like last night, I cant help it, I wont let people talk to me nastily and upset me, no way. I sound awful now dont I, but I just stick up for myself.
Any way, have a good day Barb.

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sat May 10, 2008 2:29 pm

Wow this man sounds absolutely nasty! I would most likely be just like you and get angry and confrontational with him because I can't stand animal cruelty and the like. Picking on you is strange though - what difference does it make to him how you choose to eat? Gosh!

Good luck with him hun, sounds like you are going to need it!

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sat May 10, 2008 2:30 pm

Yes, Melanie, he is one nasty piece of work. You have been emotionally abused with his comments and animals have suffered at his hands. He should be reported for his cruelty to these animals and I would say as Barbara has pointed out....he was on a roll with you and was winding you up big style. It's so hard not to react with anger and emotion when confronted with folk like him. I hope John will be protective of you and understand, along with your president friend, if you find it impossible to keep your membership in the camera club. It is a shame because you and John like the evening out too.

Today the bathroom fitters are here finishing off all the fine details. I am so looking forward to putting all our bits and bobs away in there and getting some much loved seagull ornaments installed on the bathroom windowsill (these belonged to my late sister and I've never had anywhere nice to display them....until now). She would be so pleased to see them lovingly displayed there...and my refurbished bathroom. It was always a joke between us that it would be a foggy Friday before my hubby would agree to gut the room and have a lovely bathroom. Well Dorna....it's finally become reality (I wonder can she hear my shouts of joy! from heaven).

I'll post some pictures as soon as I can....probably tomorrow or Monday I think.

Have a great weekend all. My friend from Canada is arriving in Manchester tomorrow morning from Vancouver. I've just spoken to her on msn and she's so excited....as am I. We'll be able to have "real" hugs instead of "virtual" ones. We've been friends since 9th grade in high school and I met my hubby at her first wedding (she has been happily remarried now for many years). I saw her briefly last year when I went back to B.C. for my sister's memorial service but this will be our first 2 week visit with one another for ages. I left Canada in 1983 and so the last time she saw our daughter was 7 yrs. old. Our son has seen her since then because he returned to Canada to live for a few years.....so he was an adult when he last saw her. Our kids now are 32 and 30 yrs. old.

Oh what fun is in store!

Jacquie x
_________________
http://nanas-news-jacquie.blogspot.com/

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sat May 10, 2008 8:23 pm

Melanie, I think there are two things really...

1 - you can easily report this man and the RSPCA can check him out

2 - I strongly suspect he is making these things up. I've read quite a lot of forensic psychology (we used to have a forensic shrink and I assisted him quite a bit with paperwork) and to be honest the kind of person who DOES this stuff wouldn't talk about it openly because it's intensely private to them.

What he IS, though, is a totally obnoxious nasty vicious horrible [cont. page 94]... I could go on til I run out of words suitable because most of the negative ones do fit. He is playing 'games' with you - he likes power, he likes to get you riled. Why is he picking on you? Because he tries it on every woman he meets and when one responds he turns it up.

Why do I say 'every woman'? Because it's controlling behaviour absolutely typical of the type of man who is a domestic tyrant; they don't have power in their work lives (let me guess - he is NOT a bank manager, successfully running his own business, president of the club, no?) so they INFLICT power elsewhere. He is the type to think slapping 'the wife' is acceptable, he probably belted the kids when they were younger... he knows deep down he is nothing and so devotes tons of energy to 'proving' to himself that he can MAKE people do as he wants...

I'm with John on this - ignore him, impossible though it feels. He is poking and prodding for a reaction and every time he gets one, he'll ramp it up a level the next time.

He is a bully and a thug, and he is nothing. He is SO nothing.

Think of John, who doesn't feel inadequate, doesn't feel deeply unloveable, doesn't feel he counts for nothing: John doesn't hurt people deliberately like this, does he? See that difference and next time look at John and just think "I know you, horrible-man. I know you are nothing.". Don't say it or he'll fire all guns at once in defence, but just know inside yourself that you know he is nothing and so what he says counts for nothing.

laura

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sun May 11, 2008 10:02 am

Yip, he is awful, I cant believe I held my tounge for so long when he was taunting me, I just thought I should to keep the peace, but I just could'nt last Friday. Exactly, what has it got to do with him what I eat, or if I smoke (he drinks like a fish by the way, and openly admits it). He does not work due to having a very bad back, he is no longer married but has his 13 yr old son living with him, and he is the elder in the church he attends (he is involved in alot of church activities, and attends regulary, so with been such a supposed devout Christian, you would never expect this kind of behaviour from him), I dont know if he is making it up, because his son knew every story he was telling me, so he has obviously told his son these things before, and guess what, even though they have never owned a cat, his son hates cats, suprise suprise. I agree that he targets women to pick on, and at the club, there is only about 5 woman who go there (there are about 30-40 members attend each week) and I am the youngest, so I guess that is why he has chose me to pick on, but why, I was never nasty to him, I never provoked him.
He is nothing, and I am never going to waste my breath on him again, or even look at him (which will be hard seen as he is on the commitee).

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sun May 11, 2008 10:15 am

breath on him again, or even look at him (which will be hard seen as he
is on the commitee).>

Good for you! You go, Mel!

< I am the youngest, so I guess that is why he has chose me to pick on, but why, I was never nasty to him, I never provoked him.>

You are also, scuse me for mentioning it, exceptionally beautiful and you also have a happy relationship... you may represent what he doesn't have - there are two kinds of people: those who see an aim as something to work towards and those who see an aim as something to smash and defile and make dirty and broken and brign down to the same level they are at...

Tell you one thing, though - I WOULD go and talk to his church because sometimes people who are very vulnerable (ie battered women who have escaped an abuser) will spend more time in church activities because they feel safe there, and he may try the same thing on someone who isn't as strong as you.

I think the church should at least know that he behaves like this; they may not boot him but they will be aware and can keep an eye open for similar behaviour...

laura

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sun May 11, 2008 10:41 am

I dont know what church he attends, he lives afew miles away from me, but I could try to find out. Only problem is, that he talks to alot of members at the club, and I am afraid he will tell them that I am an argumentive little so and so, and then the people I talk to will turn on me. He has been going to the club for years, we have been going for a year and a half, I am well liked there, because I help out and make the time to talk to people, but if he starts saying things about me, wont their opinions change? I have noticed though, that although he goes to talk to people, people do not make the effort to go up to him and talk, most of the time he is hovering around on his own, then he spots me, and starts talking nicely then changes into taunting mode. I just hope that people at the club will not turn against me for argueing with a long time member.

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sun May 11, 2008 11:27 am

Laura good point about talking to the church, and Melanie you could do this on the phone anonymously, if you wanted to. As an elder that's the last kind of behaviour you want, especially when he's to represent the church. Very bad.
Biblically I believe he's supposed to be called on his behaviour. (I'm curious now as to what scripture actually says on it, I'll find out)

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Sun May 11, 2008 11:58 am

I suppose I could phone the church, and remain anonymous, I feel sneaky doing it though, and I will have to find out what church he attends first. I am sure it says some where in the bible to respect and love all things that God has created (or words to that effect), so that includes cats, so why does he abuse them in such a way when he is supposed to be such a devout Christian, he is a hypocrit.

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Tue May 13, 2008 1:27 pm

I feel I have to stick my four 'penneth in on this one Melanie - it makes my blood boil too!

What a despicable, sick, BULLY that pathetic little man is. I am just like you Melanie - I too cannot stand by and see an injustice, and stick up for myself or anyone else quite forcibly when necessary - I don't think you did anything wrong at all in standing up to the bully, so don't worry. In fact, I think far from you worrying about what the camera club committee think of your behaviour, I would ask what are they going to do about his? Surely if he is making the experience a misery for people, and being a bully on a regular basis, HIS membership and place on the committee should be reviewed? If your friend is chairperson, could he/she not have a word with the man and warn him that this sort of behaviour at the camera club is unacceptable and upsetting to other members?

I agree that he is probably getting his kicks from your reactions (sadly) so don't feed his sickness. His commupence should come from being put properly in his place by his peers at church, or the committee. BTW - if he is an elder, it could be he is a Jehova Witness? So you would be looking for your nearest Kingdom Hall (their church), should you persue this line. I also agree strongly that he is eaten up with jealousy by your beauty, your happy marriage and your happy home life - not that this should be any kind of acceptable excuse. And those stories sound too specific to be made up - Laura, I have known a sadistic man (friends partner, old story) who boasted about his cruelty to animals as a youngster, and was also a wife beater and twisted pervert to boot in his adulthood...... so not sure that theory is always correct? He should be reported, for sure.

The saddest part of this story (animals and your feelings aside) is that he is in sole charge of an impressionable young boy, who we can only hope doesn't follow this disgusting excuse for a man's example. Makes you wonder what his home life is like doesn't it? Poor kid.

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Tue May 13, 2008 1:46 pm

Our friend, the president of the camera club simply said he is not getting involved, so that is that. The thing is he has been a member for such a long time, he is the competiton secretary, so there is the question of if he leaves who will fill his place, as no one wants the responsibility of been the comp sec. He only seems to pick on me, and only when John is not around, John did not know anything about the way he taunts me for been a vegetarian as I did not tell John, because I wanted to keep the peace, but I told John everything on Friday, and John is livid, he is not going to speak to him. His son always hangs around us at the club, and argues with his dad. He is (the dad) a sick individual, and I can not stand him. On Friday, if he trys to talk to me I will simply ignore him, but if he taunts me for eating a piece of cheese, I will let rip. It annoys and upsets me so much that he goes on like this, why me, why I am the one been targetted by him, I have never done him any harm, spoke to him out of turn (until last Friday) so why me, he is a completly horrible man.

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Tue May 13, 2008 2:25 pm

Melanie, try not to let rip, much though you must feel like ripping his rotten head righ toff!

Every response you give him will encourage him - he's not interested in whether you are polite or friendly, only in being able to tick the box marked RESPONDED, so even slapping him or telling him where to go will please him, sadly.

Why you? As I said before, look in the mirror. You are a beautiful woman and it must make him more aware, deep down, of the total inadequacies that he can't admit to himself, that he is a failure who will never have the love of any woman let alone one so beautiful and popular as you. It must drive him mad, not least because he can't even admit these feelings to himself. That's why he targets you.

I would report his behaviour in writing to the Camera Club, saying you understand they aren't taking any action but you want your complaint to be on file in case of future incidents with other members. He may have done it before and he may do it again to others.

Don't worry about the club - they will know you are not a troublemaker and as I said I bet he's caused problems before...

DG, in Britain a church elder is a really common term, not really thought of in connection with Jehovah's Witnesses so much as the utterly mundane Church of England/ Scotland/ Wales!

laura

Subject: Re: There is no need for it. Tue May 13, 2008 2:45 pm

I will try my best not to let rip, because I know that is what he wants, that is why on friday when he saw me getting really angry, and I was telling him to shut up, he just kept going on becasue the more he said, the angrier I was getting.
I think it is really sad if the reason he picks on me is because of the way I look, I cant help how I look, so why must I be picked on because of it (I was bullied at school because of that reason, I thought when I left school that would'nt happen any more).
I honestly dont think he has bullied anyone else at the club, if he had the president would of told us, because he is a really good friend, and tells us everything, plus when I told him I was upset on Friday because of this man he was shocked, he could not believe this man was capable of hurting someone the way he hurt me, but John and I both assured him that what I said was true, and he believed me saying he is not getting involved.